You're right, by the way. The "I must be King Kong" actor had a noticeable presence. He reminded me a bit of the ringleader murderer from Funny Games.

I like to think I'm never wrong. But seriously, August is wonderful and generally plays more intense roles, so I enjoyed seeing him loosen up a bit. I can see the Michael Pitt, comparison, too. August has played two English speaking parts, one of which, Mouth to Mouth, involved him going down on Ellen Page (why do I love telling people that?).

I love him and Daniel Brühl in Love In Thoughts, which is marketed as a gay romance between he and Daniel's characters, when it's actually the least gay part of the film:

Yay Stranglers! I may actually want to see this film now.

How wonderful was the actor playing Hans Landa, by the way? Brilliant-- the kind of villain so many writers try unsuccessfully to make their villain into.

Doesn't German have a nice sound?

Any film with August is a sure bet - he's like Brad Dourif in a way, as no matter what the film is, he's worth watching.

He's been nominated for a Golden Globe for Best Supporting Actor, so there's been speculation he could get an Oscar nomination. I still want Mélanie to get a nomination because she was the heart and soul for me. Did you know that Leonardo DiCaprio was the original choice for Landa? I wouldn't mind him in the part, as long as he could pull off speaking 4 languages. Christoph Waltz, however, has 30 years worth of acting experience, primarily in television and he's so extremely modest about his talent that it's almost frustrating.

German really does sound beautiful, though I've never always thought that; I used to find it a bit too abrasive. In fact, I wasn't too sure what to make of IB because of its advertising campaign, so I talked one of my good friends (who is near fluent in German) to see it with me by using Daniel as a bargaining chip.

I'll also warn you now: A good part of the IB fandom, and especially Landa's fans, are creepers (and Nazi fetishists). But if you feel the need to read fic wherein Landa rapes Shosanna and plows Hellstrom, then you're in luck.

Did you know that Leonardo DiCaprio was the original choice for Landa?

Yes, but only because I read up on the film immediately after seeing it, as is my custom. I like DiCaprio, but the role was wrong for him, I think. I can only imagine his Landa as being like INTENSE... BROODING... STERN... INTENSE... BROODING. Part of what I loved about Waltz's performance was that he showed the character having fun with his job-- you can see why he does what he does the way he does it: because that's the way he does it best, because that's the way that's the most fun for him.

In fact, I wasn't too sure what to make of IB because of its advertising campaign

I'm not sure why I wanted to see it so badly; the trailers made it look like ACTION ACTION ACTION BRAD PITT ACTION HUMOR ACTION. In short, like a Guy Ritchie movie.

But if you feel the need to read fic wherein Landa rapes Shosanna and plows Hellstrom, then you're in luck.

Eeuh. Absolutely the fuck not. I'm still a bit upset about all the things that happened to Shosanna in the film; there's no way I want to read about yet more tragedy being heaped upon her.

I ended up spending so much time digging up nearly all of the information I could about the film and the parts of it that intrigued and moved me. So far, all of the best interviews with Tarantino come from film blogs and the Q&A sessions at showings in California and the Alamo Drafthouse, because the people asking the questions want to know more about the film than just asking about Brad Pitt and the Bear Jew like all the major publications have.

What I enjoyed about the acting was all of the subtlety and nuance (okay, so the Basterds themselves didn't quite have that); along with that, these characters are actually three-dimensional, not cliches. Tarantino wants the viewer to be able to see the film from different perspectives, which includes recognizing that Landa was a damn fine detective, and could even be likable. On my first viewing, I actually started to feel bad for him when he realized that Aldo wasn't sticking to the deal. But after that, I began feeling more and more resentment towards him for what he had done.

As Tarantino said, "With subtitles, strudel and everything how the fuck do you get the essence of this film across in a TV spot!"
The Japanese trailer is the best one I've seen that completely captures the essence of the film as best as a film trailer these days can: http://i-basterds.com/
Ultimately, it was seeing that brief glimpse of Shosanna covered in blood and sobbing that sold me, because if anything, I could at least see her story; I was more than pleasantly surprised to see that she was the main character.

The fandom is insane. I love Shosanna immensely and I nearly take it as a personal attack to see what Nazi-fetishists on the internet do to her. I should learn by now to not be surprised by what happens on the internet, but that will never happen.

A few errant thoughts:

I actually quite enjoyed Landa's eventual fate. When I first saw the whole swastika-on-the-forehead thing, I just thought, "Ehh, more torture-porn. Okay, great," but, for Landa, it was brilliant-- he could live, and he could profit greatly from hit deal, but he would never be able to become a hero-- he would suffer, and he would suffer because of the things he did wrong, not just because of poor circumstances. The disapproval of others would act like a surrogate conscience.

Also, I really liked the film's Goebbels. Goebbels is the only Nazi I'm particularly interested in, because he was such an unusual and self-contradictory character. While Hitler, for instance, was obviously blinded by all the sparkly rigamarole of the whole Nazi thing, Goebbels was clearly totally aware of what he was doing-- totally aware that he was spreading lies and killing innocent people, and unusually candid about it. But, at the same time, he obviously didn't see an issue with it. It's bizarre to think not only that such a person existed, but that they somehow were placed in the position of RUNNING A COUNTRY.

I absolutely agree. Landa's fate so fitting, as getting killed off would have been too good for him. Everyone will know what he had done and will forever be marked for it; what side will have him, and where could he go after that? He'll get that bit of land he wanted, but Landa will be driven into isolation and I imagine his life will be threatened regularly. There are just many possibilities of all of the wonderfully awful things that will happen to him.
Quick edit, but I have to mention that I enjoyed the fact we don't see the actual carving of a swastika until the end, with Landa.

Daniel mentioned in an interview - that as strange he knew it sounded - they had the best Goebbels. I've never had an easy time even thinking of WWII, as it sends me into an angry tizzy, but I have become intrigued by Goebbels because he was so aware. I spent an evening at work recently photocopying Goebbels out of a German publication we have at work from 1936: Die Woche. I couldn't believe what I was seeing with all of these ridiculous advertisements for cologne and shampoo to make your hair blonder and cross-word puzzles that form swastikas; but the crown jewel of them all is a photo of Goebbels and Hitler at some formal function, both in nearly matching tweed suits. Hitler appears dour, but Goebbels had the largest smile I've ever scene on a person; it's unsettling yet completely amusing.

Edited 2009-12-16 07:10 am (UTC)

XD I would love to see that picture.

Have you ever seen Der Untergang (Downfall in English)? It features a remarkable portrayal of Goebbels; he's a bit like Hitler's Bellatrix Lestrange: an unearthly presence. Conversely, Valkyrie's Goebbels sucked. He came off like someone you might want to have lunch with.

Incidentally, I should note that I NEVER NEEDED TO SEE GOEBBELS HAVING SEX, EVER. BLEEEEUH!

Some aspects of WWII piss me off and upset me tremendously (I can't verbally recount the story of Sophie Scholl without crying), but other aspects of it are just too bizarre to avoid invoking my interest or amusement.

Racism (or antisemitism, in this case) is a bit like that for me-- it amuses me almost as much as it pisses me of, because racist views, while often being flamboyantly ridiculous, are usually propagated with an air of deadly seriousness. Even if immense suffering is caused, it's impossible for me not to find humor in seeing authority figures expressing clearly idiotic views with an air of self-importance.

One of the most disturbing things, to me, about the whole Nazi-led Jew-hunt is the knowledge that entire countries of people can fall in line behind an insane view. If you were a Jew in a Nazi-run country, you'd be able to see the obvious truth that Jews aren't evil, yet you couldn't go to the police-- the police are insane. You can't go to the government-- the government's insane. Your neighbors won't help you-- your neighbors are insane. I imagine it would be a bit like being in an unpleasant episode of The Twilight Zone.

I finally got a shiny new scanner/copier/printer, so I can scan it. I got other photos of him being extremely happy, including Hitler excitedly telling some sort of anecdote to someone who I assume was kind of important.

I have yet to see Downfall, though my dad has, and he loved it. I do know that the film's Goebbels was in The Ninth Day with August Diehl, which was based off of Jean Bernard's Nazi-era prison diary.

Goebbels was such a hit with the ladies.

Speaking of Valkyrie, I did not find fault with the German cast of IB and even Eli Roth talking about how they would've loved the chance to kill Nazis and such, yet I found Tom Cruise's statement about his Hitler-killing fantasies a tad deranged.

Over the years, I now find racism and other such bigoted views as absurd, along with my usual outrage. I just can't comprehend how people can be so self-important about their repugnant views and I certainly can't see them as anything other than angry all of the time, because there's a lot out there that probably outrages them. For example, I was googling Zoe Saldana and one of the search results was for the Stormfront forums; they were outraged over seeing Uhura and Spock together in the new Star Trek. Seriously. Then other members called Spock a half-breed and how everyone, including aliens, are after white women. It was hilarious. So basically, I agree; it's just taken me a few years to get to the point where I can find the humor.

I was just discussing that with a co-worker on Monday. She was passing through our government documents section and was distracted by the books we have on the Nuremberg trials, which included an index of scientific experiments and photographic evidence. It's a bit too much for me to comprehend sometimes. Some of the photos I copied from Die Woche were of the kids and young women and enlisted men and there was this great vision of a perfect Aryan world and by the time the war ended, those kids and young adults were barely into their teens and twenties.

Then I thought of Futurama with their parody, The Scary Door.
"Why should we believe you? You're Hitler!"

I have yet to see Downfall, though my dad has, and he loved it.

Downfall is brilliant. I'm not much of a war movie aficionado (I usually prefer stuff like Jarhead and Full Metal Jacket) but Downfall does so many things that I love-- it's meticulously historically accurate, presented in the style of cinema verite, it humanizes traditionally demonized figures without excusing them one iota, it features, seriously, every third or fourth German actor I've ever liked, and it has a wonderful pall of bleakness over it: from the start, it's clear that everyone is fucked-- most of the characters spend the film saying, "Shit! I've spent so long mindlessly following orders I've forgotten how to disobey them, even when they're clearly both suicidal and pointless."

I found Tom Cruise's statement about his Hitler-killing fantasies a tad deranged.

I missed that.

One of the things that people do wrong with Nazis, particularly in what-if-Hitler-had-won-the-war speculative fiction is lose sight of how hideously dull and bureaucratic living in a totalitarian state is aside from the odd midnight raid for dissidents to ship off to the death camps. I mean, can you imagine what it would be like to live in a place where someone like, say, John Ashcroft controlled everything you were allowed to read and all the music you were allowed to listen to?

There's a fairly good book called Fatherland by Robert Harris (who also wrote the superior WWII-connected espionage thrillers Enigman and Archangel) which tackles the what-if-Hitler-won question without accidentally glamorizing the Nazis. It's set in the sixties and, since the Jews have all been gotten rid of, Hitler has shifted to blaming all of societies problems on the perfidious influence of gays. Society has gradually liberalized, though it's still frightfully uptight-- jazz music, for instance, is allowed, but only special jazz "purged of negroid influences" which, according to the book's description, sounds lifeless and staid, possessing none of the dynamism of proper jazz.

For some reason those details stuck in my head after I read the book.

I do love Bruno Ganz, as he's the go-to actor for practically every German film. War films aren't generally to my taste, either, though it depends (I loved Casualties of War but seeing it once was enough). Your description of it is enough to convince me to see it; something that most historical films have a habit of doing when depicting figures such as Hitler is to either have them as evil and monstrous as possible, or almost sympathetic and to a degree, buffoonish.

I hate to link you to a gossip site: http://justjared.buzznet.com/2009/01/19/tom-cruise-ive-always-wanted-to-kill-hitler/
He could just be referring to his views a child, but if he still feels that way now, he just comes off as a little too simplistic. Or perhaps it's just my bias against him coming out.

Nazis and the like have been over-romanticized and mythologized to an insane degree, when what's truly horrifying about all of them is that they were regular people. To read original publications from that time, you just see Hitler and Goebbels at dinner parties and shaking hands with children; it's the banality of evil. They wielded great power for sinister purposes, but were totally average. It would be a mundane existence and many people would likely allow themselves to fall into a simple life of routine. It'd be easy for one to make claims of what'd they'd do in such a society, but we'd never truly know unless we lived through it.

I believe I have heard of Fatherland before, but as I'm always into finding films and books, I will have to add it to my list. I've been reading non-fiction for so long that I greatly appreciate finding rewarding, well-written fiction.

I do love Bruno Ganz, as he's the go-to actor for practically every German film. War films aren't generally to my taste, either, though it depends (I loved Casualties of War but seeing it once was enough).

Bruno Ganz was great in Nosferatu. Have you seen it?

Oh, would you consider Jacob's Ladder a war film, per se? Probably not.

He could just be referring to his views a child, but if he still feels that way now, he just comes off as a little too simplistic. Or perhaps it's just my bias against him coming out.

Nah, you're right. He sounds asinine.

Nazis and the like have been over-romanticized and mythologized to an insane degree, when what's truly horrifying about all of them is that they were regular people. To read original publications from that time, you just see Hitler and Goebbels at dinner parties and shaking hands with children; it's the banality of evil. They wielded great power for sinister purposes, but were totally average. It would be a mundane existence and many people would likely allow themselves to fall into a simple life of routine.

I hate to namedrop thirty different things in one comment, but you really ought to read Kurt Vonnegut's Mother Night.

Something that particularly aggravates me about the way Nazis have been turned into villainish caricatures-- people so overtly evil that, like Tom Cruise says, why didn't somebody just kill them? is that it seems to me that it trains people to look for governments with big "I'M EVIL" signs hanging from their foreheads. We could learn from the whole Nazi thing to be suspicious of leaders who come on with the, "You're under attack, and the only way to survive is to give me more power!" routine, but, instead, we've learned only to look out for people who seem obviously maniacal.

I believe I have heard of Fatherland before, but as I'm always into finding films and books, I will have to add it to my list. I've been reading non-fiction for so long that I greatly appreciate finding rewarding, well-written fiction.

It's pretty decent, as I remember it. I'd suggest Mother Night first, though.

I apologize for getting back to you so late!

I still have yet to see Herzog's remake of Nosferatu, even though it has Bruno and one of my all-time favorites, Klaus Kinski. I'm still bothered by Herzog's shitty treatment of Abel Ferrara and that version (or as Herzog called it, sequel) of Bad Lieutenant.

We could learn from the whole Nazi thing to be suspicious of leaders who come on with the, "You're under attack, and the only way to survive is to give me more power!" routine, but, instead, we've learned only to look out for people who seem obviously maniacal.

Definitely. It's such a simplistic viewpoint; it's like the general response from my classmates in high school sincerely questioning, "Why didn't someone just killer Hitler?"
I can understand how the events in WWII can seem incomprehensible and how the absolute outrage and disgust can lead one to that line of thinking, but eventually, has to (or should) grow out of such black and white thinking, as it does us no favors.

I hate to namedrop thirty different things in one comment, but you really ought to read Kurt Vonnegut's Mother Night.

I absolutely should and will get to it when possible.

Here's Goebbels and Hitler as promised:

I feel terrible for saying that I love this picture, but I do because of the real life horror and absurdity of it. Did they decide to dress similarly? Was Hitler not terribly fond of these little gatherings, judging by his constant discomfort in pictures from them? Goebbels is so goddamned pleased with life and then there's that guy in the back, in the glasses, ignoring his conversation to get in on the photograph. Maria, it must be noted, did very well for herself during this time, primarily performing Wagner's works.
I couldn't fit all of the page on the copier, so some of the text is cut off, but hopefully, it doesn't deter from the perverse enjoyment of the picture. I've noticed that German publications from the time period never called Hitler by name, just Der Führer, which makes it funnier to me.

Ha ha ha ha ha! Woah! Is that really him? He looks so different when he's not scowling!

After discussing it with you, I checked out the film version of Mother Night again, for the first time in some time. Goebbels makes a bit appearance, played by a guy you probably know as Edward Norton's boss from Fight Club. He's okay-- no complaints on my part. It's only a little dinky cameo, though, so real nuance isn't required.

Here's a link to the trailer, by the way: http://videodetective.com/TitleDetails.aspx?publishedid=00005002

The film is in no way a replacement for the book, but, it should be noted, it's one of the few Vonnegut film adaptations that hasn't made me puke in my mouth.

When Goebbels was out and about, it seemed as though he was having a great time. This one is the first I found when opening up Die Woche:

I joked that the magazine would be filled with Nazis, and there he was. Everyone looks so delighted! The guy in front seems to be a bit shy.

And laughing it up:

The headline from that page was Reichstheater Festwoche in München.

I generally avoid film adaptations of books, but that trailer and the cast look promising.

It's actually pretty bloody good. Not exceptional, but it does a good job of taking what made the book good and putting it onscreen, and also with imbuing it with a bit of life of its own. The movie loses some of its punch and weirdness with the mostly chronological storytelling (the book was a bit Slaughterhouse Five-y in that regard-- jumping hither and yon), though. Kirsten Dunst is virtually unrecognizable; I saw it twice before I realized who she was, in the film.

Wow. Okay; as you can imagine, most of the photos I'd seen of Goebbels were of him with that "I NEVER EXPERIENCE JOY BECAUSE IT WOULD BE UNPROFESSIONAL" expression. I think I would have been an awful Nazi, by the way, at least outside of taking joy in dressing snappily.

The thing with the Goebbels children is one of those things that I can't think about without becoming at least a little upset.

I like to poke fun at Nick Nolte every now and then, but he is an impressive actor; I also can't resist watching John Goodman (I'll love him forever for Roseanne and his work with the Cohen brothers). I have far too many films and books to get to, but I'll gladly add Moth Night to the list.

The fact that he had such influence over film is still a bit of a shock to me, as I have time thinking of any of them enjoying anything, let alone having an eye for art. Apparently he was considered to be on the 'left' side of the Nazi party because he admired the Russians and some aspects of Communism.

The death of the Goebbels children is extremely unnerving, and I'm sure I've said it before, but going through those magazines and seeing all these children and young people bothers me because they were being indoctrinated and enlisted to support and fight for a future that never happened. By the end, they were dead or damaged.

Call me naive, but I had no idea that Triumph of the Will was available on DVD until just now looking it up. And the poster is available on moviegoods.com, with suggestions that I might be interested in posters for the Ilsa films and Profondo Rosso.